Wonder if UPRR will be receiving these at a discount or if they've backed out on them already...
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I really hope CSX buys some of these to switch up the GEVO monotony.
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I really hope CSX buys some of these to switch up the GEVO monotony.
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The new fabricated trucks are interesting. I hear they're just as strong and cheaper to manufacture.
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I read somewhere that CSX prefers windshields with straight bottom edges, or true rectangles like the GE units. If that's true, then CSX may not buy this configuration.
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I see Union Pacific donated some surplus paint.
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These are nice enough to be Union Pacific...Great shot, RailfanTerry. PCA vote for me.
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| Posted by Viper on June 22, 2016 | |
UP did not back out on any orders !
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It is not uncommon for a manufacturer to build a locomotive to a particular railroad's specifications either "on spec" or as part of an order that is first made available for others to test. We don't know if this locomotive was ordered by UP or EMD is hoping to make a sale. Regardless, with all the units in storage UP certainly isn't in need of immediate delivery.
I remember seeing a few UPRR SD-24s fitted out with the SP headlight package - apparently SP wasn't impressed enough to purchase them.
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| Posted by Viper on June 22, 2016 | |
Only confirmed order for Tier-4 Ace's is 100 units for UP. this was confirmed before the demo units went to BNSF , CN , CSX and NS .
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I think the trucks came from the JT56ACe. Or at least the idea. How this will work out in North America instead of China remains to be seen.
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| Posted by Viper on June 23, 2016 | |
The bogies were tested in Australia where the tare weight of locomotives are much higher
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| Posted by Viper on June 23, 2016 | |
If you look close at the pictures of the JT56ACe those bogies are not even close to the SD70 Ace tier 4's
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You're right. Not even close to the JT56ACe's. As for the Aussies, I believe that. But how it will test out in the US, Canada and Mexico, for those railroads interested remain to be seen. If Uncle Pete's got 100 on order already, it could make EMD catch up, but essentially giving GE 100% of the market share for up to 2 years since last year must've hurt the company regardless of what they say about it. Only thing here is that some railroads, they would have to woo to get them to not order GE's or split order them. Right now CP has a love affair with GE, despite no new GE's being ordered or delivered. CN's exclusively ordered GE's since the last SD70M-2 rolled off the London assembly line. (The SD70ACe's don't count). GP20C-ECO's and the SD counterpart don't count either.
Bottom line: From the way it looks, EMD will have to do a lot of wooing.
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| Posted by Viper on June 24, 2016 | |
EMD / CAT listed to the railroads and what they needed and wanted in a locomotive they produced what they wanted and their not going to have to woo anyone . the 10 demos are painted UP because after touring the country they will end up on UP while the wait for their 100 units to make the property.
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I did read after my original comment that UP will be getting all of the demo units after they are finished on the demo circuit.
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| Posted by Viper on June 25, 2016 | |
How dose EMD/Cat rebuilding and eco powered engines not count ? EMD/Cat are only behind for about a year they have been delivering SD70AH in the first quarter 0f 2016 to UP and they have many orders for 710 motors for the shipping and foreign markets. have you heard of the F125 passenger motors ?. just wait and see CN and CP will order EMD/Cat products no worries.
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I also hope CSX buys some of these to break up the monotony. I love the flared radiators I might have to purchase one of these for my HO scale layout.
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Viper: The only reason they don't count is they are remanufactured. Not new. Therefore they do not count. We're talking very new units, so new you can get higher than a kite from that sealer coat. As it stands now last I heard, CN's SD70M-2's are fine. CP didn't go for the ACe after CSX's pre-production versions could not handle the extreme cold here in Ontario. They tested them, but turned thumbs down because of that. CP had a chance on trading in their 4 SD90MAC-H's for a quartet of the ACe's but instead the MAC-H's ended up in the scrapline. The SD9043MAC's weren't good performers. Crews hated them. Since then, CP has been in a love affair with GE and I don't blame them one bit. As I siad before CN has ordered GE's ever since the last SD70M-2 rolled off the assembly line in London.
Giving GE essentially 100% of the market share until later this year is going to wound EMD if it already hasn't. Doesn't matter how much money Cat puts in, EMD still has to do a lot of wooing, and in almost all cases, you have to really convince them that this locomotive is better than the GE's. Exports, well, that's a grey area and it's what kept EMD going. The SD70AH units might be credit units. Someone else can fill in on this. I'll give you credit for the exports though. There is no way you can call this a monopoly when EMD had the chance and didn't take it.
EMD had loads of time to come up with the successor to the 710. Instead it became bureaucratic nonsense, with the closing of the London facility (that's another story which I won't go into) which GE pounced on. How much money did they spend on developing the 1010? How much money did GE spend on modifying the wildly popular GEVO to get to Tier 4? EMD couldn't do it with the 710 without sacrificing a ton of stuff. GE could. Once again, who's the clear winner? But then again the EVO was designed with Tier 4 in mind. Once EMD said they could not get the 710 to Tier 4 and had to design a new engine, I'm sure GE smiled at that one. Right there they knew they would have almost 100% of the market once Tier 4 came into effect. How much money did GE spend to develop the EVO? $250 million? Bet they are saying that's money well spent. I would be. EMD modified the 710 for Tier 3, but it's hard to say whether that itself hurt them. They could've made it with the 265H, but except for the China order and how unpopular it was here, it was smart not to use it. I'll give EMD credit for that. Whether they could've made Tier 4 out of it, that's anyone's guess.
Look at the sales figures: GE's EVO models, both domestic and exports, vs. EMD's ACe and M-2 series. GE beat EMD by a very wide margin. I believe the EVO series has displaced the SD40-2 as the top selling locomotive model. If not, it's definitely in the top 3. EMD/GMD produced the SD40 series over a period of 22 years. GE needed less than 10 to do the same amount and more. If you throw in the credit units it's probably more.
The F125: Granted this is EMD's first passenger locomotive in what 20 years? It has not proven itself in actual service. Once again, doesn't count. On the test track you can only do so much. On the road is where you're going to learn whether or not this will be it. Only one has been shipped out. Hasn't actually been used in commuter service. Once again, wooing is involved because MPI dominates this market with the MP36, MP40 and MP54. Those locomotives with the exception of the MP54 have proven themselves in actual service. If it proves itself then we will see. Granted commuter agencies order these completely blind and have no demo unit to work from.
If you look at it purely from a sales point of view and compare the numbers, I don't care what you say, EMD has wooing to do. And from the looks of it, this includes Canada. I'm surprised EMD even listened to the railroads this time. They were very stubborn with Amtrak once the writing was on the wall for the F40PH. Probably said "we aren't going through that again". With regards to Amtrak, EMD said "we aren't changing anything". GE said they would change it.
This isin't intended to start a war, but look at the numbers. Only time will tell if this incarnation of the SD70AH since now all locomotives are AC, will either beat GE or at best, be on par. If I were EMD, I'd try to go for par. No way they will be able to beat GE as it stands now. Alot of catching up is required.
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| Posted by Viper on June 28, 2016 | |
the SD70AH's are AC units. the 1010 engine is a 12 cylinder version of the 4 cycle 245H engine that has been in production since 1994.Progress rail/EMD/Cat will not have to woo anyone. the have a better product that is now testing across the country. CP has bought nothing but GE for ten years but still more than half their fleet like most class 1 railroads are EMD/GMD motors
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| Posted by Viper on June 28, 2016 | |
Metrolink has purchased 20 F125 as of 6/28/16.
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Still, until the F125 proves itself, it's unproven. But to avoid an argument, we will see if EMD can take back it's place as the #1 builder. From the looks of it, you have a lot of work to do. Numbers don't count remember. They might have an order on the books, but it's still unproven in actual service.
If it's really derived from the 12 cylinder version of the 265, that's even more wooing to do. The 16 cylinder versions weren't great applied to a railroad application with the only exception being the JT56ACe. CSX replaced their 7HDL's in their GE AC6000CW's with 16-GEVO's. Not one complaint so far as I know.
IOnly time will tell if even the Canadian railroads bite on this. EMD could've had a Tier 4 engine ready, but the bureaucratic mess that followed when they shut down the London plant and opened the Muncie plant probably hurt them. Papers up here called that "Industrial Rape without Vaseline". The Government of Ontario was furious over it. People in London were furious. And by saying furious is the lightest of what I can say since this is technically a PG rated site. Probably one reason why Stephen Harper wasn't re-elected to office. If they did not shut London down, they might have had a demo on the rails before the 1/1/15 date. Shut it down, told everyone the 710 is not Tier-4 capable and it would take up to a year and a half to get a demo on the rails. That's EMD's fault for giving GE basically 100% of the market. I'm not accepting the R&D excuse either. They had enough time to figure it out and didn't.
If it does demo in Canada, it's likely going to be in the winter. If it fails, you can bet no Canadian railroad will order any. Remember, CP Rail tested 2 GMDX SD70ACe's and 2 more from CSX. They could not handle the winter in Ontario. That was one of the main reasons why CP did not order any.
Plus the Evolution Series was included in The Top 10 Locomotives that Changed Railroading, the only locomotive built after 1972 to do so. Doubtful EMD can even beat that.
I ran the numbers from Wikipedia. The Evolution series, including the Tier 4 units came in at 7,842. That would far surpass the SD40 as the best selling locomotive ever made. Sitting very pretty at #1. This includes the export locomotives.
For EMD, using the same source (SD70 family): 5,385. It's close, to tell you the truth, by about 2000 or so, but I included the NS purchase of ex UP SD90's in that total. This is since production began for both.
The SD70 has been in production for how long? 20 years? 10 for the ES? Only time will tell if EMD can regain the lead, under new management that's not from GM.
New Corporate Overlords? Maybe. Want to grab some coffee?
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I just re-read my post from June & realized - I boo-booed. It wasn't CSX that is standardizing windshields; it's Norfolk Southern.
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